quote:

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Originally posted by kingcaleb:
[B] I too would assume that a PSX plugged into a kick-arse amp and equalizer would sound the same as any other

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Let me get this straight. You believe that if you hook your DVD player and Dreamcast up to your amp, and use them both as a cd player, that you do not expect to hear any difference between the two at all??

ROTFLMFAO

What DVD player are you using??

[This message has been edited by Dionysus (edited 30-01-2001).]

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Originally posted by kingcaleb:
I think this is a gem !

They have phrases like this in marketing textbooks. It relates so so much to 'my console is better than yours' debates and every hifi debate you could think of.

I had guests over a few weeks back to watch Gladiator. At the end they were overwhelmed - especially by the sound. Five technophile men and one woman sat there for 2 hours and never realized!

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Maybe they were just being polite

Seriously though, I think that proves something I have been saying for a while now. You only need 2 speakers to enjoy a movie soundtrack.

quote:

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Originally posted by kingcaleb:
In this particular case the 2 metre projection screen made the Krysler surrounds from the footpath, the tinny centre speaker, and the non-existent left and right speakers sound like BOSE 5.1 surround.

The power of expectation

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http://www.madrigal.com/No306.htm

http://www.madrigal.com/No37.htm

quote:

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Originally posted by Dionysus:
Let me get this straight. You believe that if you hook your DVD player and Dreamcast up to your amp, and use them both as a cd player, that you do not expect to hear any difference between the two at all??

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Where I work, the threat of 'folk-psychology' is ever present. The best scientist abandons all intuition and seeks objective answers.
If anyone supported an argument by saying "it sounds so much better" - we laugh at them and tell them to bugger off to the Arts building (or worse yet psychology at Sydney uni!)

So, while intuition tells me a DVD (I have a toshiba 2109) playing a CD will sound better than a Dreamcast or PSX, I also once thought a $750 PS2 would look better than a $194 Dreamcast. I'm quite sure there is a very straightforward answer along the lines of : a better CD player has a better laser, DAC (what is that?), sampling rate etc. but: "Dionysus says so cos e's been in the industry for two decades" doesn't cut it, because the Astrology and Acupuncture 'industries' are full of 'experts' and I wouldn't listen to a word they say.

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Originally posted by kingcaleb:
I'm quite sure there is a very straightforward answer along the lines of : a better CD player has a better laser, DAC (what is that?), sampling rate etc. but: "Dionysus says so cos e's been in the industry for two decades" doesn't cut it, because the Astrology and Acupuncture 'industries' are full of 'experts' and I wouldn't listen to a word they say.

What makes a good CD player good ? And if it is just better computer and lasers - why isn't a DVD player superior ?

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Caleb, you obviously did not bother to check out any of the links I posted, as it spells it out quite clearly.

You obviously did not bother reading my previous reply either.

If you can not be bothered reading the information provided, then how will you ever further your education.

Now caleb, did you even bother connecting your DC and DVD player to your amp and test them as a cd player. No?? I didn't think so.
Please stop wasting my time with your ridiculous, uneducated comments and opinions.

quote:

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Originally posted by kingcaleb:
because the Astrology and Acupuncture 'industries' are full of 'experts' and I wouldn't listen to a word they say.

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quote:

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Originally posted by kingcaleb:
Where I work, the threat of 'folk-psychology' is ever present. The best scientist abandons all intuition and seeks objective answers.
If anyone supported an argument by saying "it sounds so much better" - we laugh at them and tell them to bugger off to the Arts building (or worse yet psychology at Sydney uni!)

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You may be looking for a job at Sydney Uni one day Caleb...

So, Dionysus, the way I see it, since listening to music is all about perception, whether your setup sounds better than a PSX is irrelevant, you perceive it to, and that's all that matters. I guess in a round-about way, you win the argument.

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Originally posted by DJ Fusion:
Actually, he'd be a shitstirrer only if he was kind of joking.

Fact is, he's a humorless bastard, and I have no doubt he's being dead serious, which really just makes him a bit of a drip.

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I have been around long enough to realise challenging people's beliefs with logic and reason will not earn you many friends.

Is that it? Because its okay if Koen doesn't want to be my friend anymore I'll just beg* and grovel** until he likes me again!

*Delete all his posts.
**Edit his posts so he looks like a knob.

My point is that many people hold various beliefs that are patently false. The truth may set you free, but it will rarely make you popular.

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Originally posted by Super Scrooge:
I'm with you caleb, peoples perceptions are very easy to influence. Example, take some identical orange juice in two seperate bottles, one cheap-looking, one fancy and expensive looking. Ask people to try both. Invariably people will prefer the juice from the fancy bottle.

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I understand where you are coming from, but if you have the time and check out some of my other posts on the subject, you will find that I have been offered $1000 cables that were supposed to be the best in the world, but I ended up buying $450 cable because to my ear the $450 cable sounded a lot better, even though it looked worse, and was from a much less known manufacturer.

I have tested extensively power amps that cost 4 times the price of my Australian Power Amp, and were made by some of the most respected Amplifier Manufactureres in America, yet my Australian, never heard of, power amp creamed all competition in terms on sonics, so unfortunately your theory has no relevance in this discussion.

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Originally posted by Super Scrooge:
So, Dionysus, the way I see it, since listening to music is all about perception, whether your setup sounds better than a PSX is irrelevant, you perceive it to, and that's all that matters. I guess in a round-about way, you win the argument.

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That is also the way I see it, as no one can tell me I cannot hear what I am actually hearing, just because they cannot or do not want to hear it themselves. I assume you, unlike Caleb, actually bothered to check out the links, and now have an understanding as to what makes a good CD player as opposed to a lees good one.

[/B][/QUOTE]

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Originally posted by Dionysus:
Caleb, you obviously did not bother to check out any of the links I posted, as it spells it out quite clearly.
You obviously did not bother reading my previous reply either.

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Your first reply went through the history of CD !? Your link led to a business site full of a lot of trash tech talk which didn't go any way to justifying your position.
I don't even know why you think I believe a cheap CD player or DVD player sounds better than an expensive component CD player. I keep repeating that was my actual intuition. I just wanted to know a few objective reasons why.

I'm afraid DJ is very right - I'm being a nerdy, whining, drip, not a shitstirrer. I really just wanted to know!
If you're answer to everything is "I know best because I've run tests, have you?" then you might be a fine expert - but you're not very good at imparting that expertise to others.
I actually thought it was quite amusing that you 'educated' me by posting a link to a bizarre industry propaganda site, because the site has that "Loewe" bullshit feel - which is precisely what you were arguing against 50 or so posts ago.

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Originally posted by Dionysus:
Please stop wasting my time with your ridiculous, uneducated comments and opinions.

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Yes master.

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Originally posted by kingcaleb:
I'm afraid DJ is very right - I'm being a nerdy, whining, drip, not a shitstirrer.

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*DJ Pokes tongue out at Super Scrooge*