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Good point, but it's still a cross against the systems launch instead of a tick.

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Why even get a PS2? Aren't they just the same games that were on the PSX? GT2, DOA, GTA2.

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Why even get a PS2? Aren't they just the same games that were on the PSX? GT2, DOA, GTA2.

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Heh. GTA3 is completely different to GTA2... not fair. GT3 is definitely a leap ahead of GT2, and more than worth the money. DOA2 is just a port, but so what? There will be games like that. The point is PS2 has many ORIGINAL titles, as well as many brilliant titles on it first, optimised for it. So THPS3 will not only be out first on PS2, it won't look much better on XBox. MGS2? PS2. Ico? FFX? PS2. There are many, many good reasons to buy the console, and so far with its already built in DVD player, good price point, and great current library, the mainstream consumer is MUCH more likely to buy a PS2 over an XBox.

No one is 'picking on' any particular company
All companies have things to be bashed for:

Sony: The statement many websites reported about them putting graphics over length of games and stuff.

Nintendo: Bullied many developers during the NES days.

Microsoft: Well, I'll let the DOJ take care of this one.

Sega: They quit too much.

All the companies have many things that could warrant them getting bashed just as much as Sony (yes I'm guilty too, but at least now I can realize that myself).

When it comes to game consoles, there was a backlash against PS2 because many considered it just hype because they felt the launch was lackluster and the games we barely better than DC if better at all. It's people's opinion and they are entitled to it (especially if they played both systems). In the end this time, all system will have good games so it will be mainly a think of finding which system has the most games that appeal to you.

The final reason Sony gets bashed may not be directly Sony's fault, but the huge amount of Sony fanboys on many forums and stuff back in the day that would constantly bash the DC (even before the DC was out if I remember right). Many DC owners were mad that Sega proved their system had good games and yet so many waited for PS2. But then again this also partially had to do with the fact that Sega gave up on many of their systems, but if you have a system with amazing games and fanboys say that another system is going to blow it out of the water, how would you feel? If your system was dying and in the meantime many games that the fanboys were saying were going to be awsome, like bouncer flopped. How would you feel then?

So there's a lot of pros' and cons' that come into this.

DJ: that's kind of where I'm at in my decision-making. I'm just seeing all these great second generation PS2 games (all my friends are playing and enjoying thier ps2s) but it's the promise of greater things ahead that I'm more concerned with. Will this software quality get exponentially better over time as lambchop keeps going on about, negating any power advantages Xbox has over ps2(and will it really be worth the wait seeing as xbox could do all the little tricks ps2 can do, quickly), or will the xbox just blow the ps2 out of the water, justifying the extra cost of the unit? It's not really 1 single factor (as though people really do decide on things based on company worship, give them more credit than that) but many things over time and the overall plan. (like each companies' focus, if there is one. And no, company 'coolness' is not a factor.)

Xbox is looking more attractive to me in terms of the titles I am looking forward to:

-JGRF
-DOA3
-PG
-Shenmue series
-Panzer Dragoon
-and all the other good shit like Morrowind, Halo etc that don't come to mind but that I've read about or seen from somewhere
(lotsa sega stuff notice? It's like the DC2! )
Now if the ps2 gets these games than fine(no need to boast about the "death of the xbox hath cometh!" as some fanboys do), but I'd rather the 'prettier versions'

One thing worrying me is that a lot of the cross platform games being made may just encourage more and more companies to be more EA-ish in thier approach to making games. Once in a while I want an original built from the ground up, thought-through-carefully, title that you can call the console's own. Sure PS2 and XBox are competing for the same slice, but I hope they don't waste so much time and money on just the usual franchises and once in a while impress us with thier own content that wasn't bought out (bungie) or compromised(ported from a weaker machine), which will highlight that machine's strengths and features. For example an XBox title which uses the HD and *needs* it as well as utilises the best graphical effects it can that no other system can do, OR: a PS2 game using the EE in a way that is actually noticable in gameplay (characters that really do behave realistically from a AI perspective and displaying complex dynamic emotions and reactions in realtime - as opposed to: "ooh I've finally solved the jaggies problem and increasd the polys a tiny amount" now I can boast about my techniques even though my game sucks). You get the idea.

Anyway this is what nintendo meant when they said something along the lines of "companies being valued too much for thier technical skills more than thier creative skills".
As much as I am merely 'enjoying' the usual frnachises of games and thier established gameplay types, I would be more bigkev-like, 'excited' if there were more creative and noticable uses of that particular system's strengths through the game's initial design from the start of that game being built up.

I would rather something to look forward to on PS2 AND something to look forward to on XBox, rather than "gee they are competing for the same demographic and exclusivity contracts on existing games and talents we've seen before on past consoles(DC) rather than coming up with something unique themselves that the other company wasn't ready for."

I think that was what the original poster's concern was about. That MS are copying sony's 'buying up of talent', style of console dominance rather than being like sega and nintendo where all the stuff they come up is thier own, therefore MS triumphs being less 'credible' if they compete with sony and 'win'. Throwing money at problems, hyping the media, stealing ideas or buying the talent, making sequels to flood the market etc, are the signs of big companies competing for money and souls of existing mainstream gamers rather than adapting thier styles of gamemaking to changing tastes. People will get sick of gaming itself once they've spent so much money and get the same thing over and over again.

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Originally posted by Christopher De'Toi:
God, this is such a waste of time.

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..because scope's mum won't stop calling him.

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Originally posted by DJ Fusion:
If you had neither a PS2 nor an XBOX, but wanted to buy a next generation console, why on earth would you buy the PS2?

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I think Mr De'Toi is suggesting that you should by a Gamecube, because "it dosent have a condom vending machine built in". It's a powerful argument.

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Originally posted by Christopher De'Toi:
God, this is such a waste of time.

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No shit, of course trying to argue that Xbox is identical to the PS2 except that PS2 is better is a waste of time. But one has to wonder, why did you bother? I mean, you did start this thread, didn't you?

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The point is PS2 has many ORIGINAL titles, as well as many brilliant titles on it first, optimised for it. So THPS3 will not only be out first on PS2, it won't look much better on XBox. MGS2? PS2. Ico? FFX? PS2. There are many, many good reasons to buy the console, and so far with its already built in DVD player, good price point, and great current library, the mainstream consumer is MUCH more likely to buy a PS2 over an XBox.

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List of games(ones worth mentioning off the top of my head):

ICO
Kinetica
GT3
Twisted Metal Black
Devil May Cry
Ace Combat 4
Silent Hill 2
Grad Theft Auto 3
Time Crisis 2

Coming Soon:
MGS2
THPS3
Vampire Night

No argument from me about ps2 library but
that's the mainstream consumer, but what about those looking for the best quality? (in terms of graphics etc) Like what DJ has mentioned:
People who have not yet got a ps2 who were planning on getting one may see the x-box versions of games and change minds. If the XBox has all the things the ps2 will have (dvd, great library of *upcoming* games, power(over sony's pricepoint)) than they will be equally excited if they think they will be getting a better machine.(As long as the visual quality *really* noticeably shows through)

It's the same with DC, it had great library, original titles, price point, power to match the arcades (at the current time) but it failed to ps2. Some games arguably even looked better on DC than the later ps2 versions. But it (ps2) still succeeded. (or Sega killed themselves with no advertising)
But XBox is kind of like the DC but with the security of not bowing out so early like sega had to. MS has the money to throw around so it could either:

1.be around for a long time with mainstream support and recognition, or

2.go unnoticed like the N64 and continue to churn out games dedicated to the existing owners of the system. (regardless of much higher the userbase sony have gained over them)

Either way, there is a growing number of people who would at least *consider* the alternative machine for the sake of the great titles not seen on ps2 AS well as the complementary cross platform titles (or ports) that current ps2 people are enjoying now.

Another thing: Sony's successes now, don't necessarily rule out the possiblilty that people who own a ps2 now won't ever consider getting the XBox in the future either.(multiplatform gamers) In other words you can be Pro-Xbox without having to be Anti-Sony, and you can be ProSony without having to be Anti-Xbox.

My problem is more with the way a lot of thirdparty games may be derivative as a result of the split of the market into 3 competitors. Will we see an increase in quality gameplay and games maximising the system's potential or more stagnation with sequels and lazy ports all over the place? I don't mind the sequels and ports flooding the market if they mean they don't drown out the good titles causing them to never be made. This is where I think the balance of a game's worth and the mindset of the people supporting thier system comes into play. You don't buy a console for the console but for something you think you won't be getting if you had not bought it. This is what micrsoft need to focus on rather than copying Sony (and the concern about the XBox being too much like ps2) but first they need to attract the early adopters with demonstrations of power first, rather than sheer number of support. (even though, unlike nintendo, that's what they'd want right from the start)

Sony's emphasis is userbase, the headstart in the second generation of software's quality, price.
Xbox is power, support(the potential of cross-platform thirdparties), ease of development and similarity to pc architecture. (could the development time saved be passed on to consumers as lower priced games? It seems like only the 133+ devs know what they are doing with the ps2 which reminds me of the n64. Lesser good games and higher-priced games plus more spacing out between releases. If the company is desperate and running out of cash and can barely meet the deadline thanks to having to struggle with the system, it could even mean half-arsed, rushed-to-market games that sell well. Ninty learned from N64 to make the system (GC) easier to develop for, so (even with the few early available games) I doubt we will see huge spacing between releases or rushed-to-market extremes in the future.)

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Originally posted by Poppa Large Advance:
Christopher De'Toi = Angel

This thread = Pool Room

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Originally posted by Christopher De'Toi:
And can I please ask why you are comparing me to a Vampire living in Los Angeles. I like the show but.

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In fact, call me a fag0t and we're probably all square.

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Originally posted by Christopher De'Toi (at GA):
I have been on this assignment for over 9 months know, and have even had somone from my class try to break into my house just for the info I have, pretty pathetic for it is all on computer, anyway keep discussing Im getting all the data down

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No-one gives a rats who is a moderator. No-one cared what I thought before and no-one cares now. This forum only has mods to clean up posts when necessary not to tell it's members what to think.

Had you been around here and taken note of that fact you wouldn't have gotten so defensive when the Xbox fanboys got defensive.

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and its obvious I cant win this argument I have one so called moderator who has too much time on his hand and 10 of his Robbie Batch wannabee's all againt me. Its like you think DJ Fusion is going to give you a cookie for defending him, please

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